Posted by Oren Beck on July 18, 2004, 10:45 pm
I have been following the " New Beetle " solar panel stories .
which leads to a rational query deserving rational commentary .
Send flames , Childish or OT comments etc to /dev/null .
The query is simple : why auto makers have not integrated solar
panels into at least some models . The first price drops making the
expansion of the concept feasible .
Economics of mass production seemingly would make this a mutual win
for all players in the solar economy . IF say - GM orders 2.5 million
11 watt panels what price impact does that have over time ?
I do wonder how much cooling by solar electric powered airflow
would do to interior temps of parked cars ?
The marginal viability being that precooling cars decreases fuel
consumption to cool them . Now the math wizards can debate the
marginailatity involved but in the real world it makes sense .
11 watts times 2.5 million = 27.5 megawatts per year of demand ....
What's the year when the cost per watt becomes the minimum possible ?
Minimum defined as the free market's lowest viable contract pricing.
The concept I was taught explaining certain scaling economics is that
Serial # 1 "costs" a megabuck and serial # 1 million can- in some
cases cost nothing . This claim seems like voodoo accounting at
first but after assignments of general ledger factorials such as
"other revenue streams " it makes an oddly persuasive model .
Example - by selling your process tech as cost defrayal. Or maybe -
Vertical integrations such as selling electric cars skinned with your
cells that are priced at a point set by internal company dynamics ..
The factorials inherent that contracting for tons of glass per year
Vs pounds drive costing to ultimate minima . See Wal-Mart for details.
And here's the closer . As cars get retired the PV panels become
either recycled into the production line or resold for other uses .
Because if we continue trashing instead of engineered dissasembly
soon all tech issues will be moot as the resources will be landfilled.
Posted by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roland_M=F6sl?= on July 19, 2004, 2:10 am
> 11 watts times 2.5 million = 27.5 megawatts per year of demand ....
> What's the year when the cost per watt becomes the minimum possible ?
> Minimum defined as the free market's lowest viable contract pricing.
Exactly my thoughts 1995
http://pege.org/pvworld/index.htm
http://pege.org/soco/index.htm
--
Roland Mösl
http://www.pege.org Clear targets for a confused civilization
http://web-design-suite.com Web Design starts at the search engine
Posted by Mick Powers on July 19, 2004, 6:35 am
> The query is simple : why auto makers have not integrated solar
> panels into at least some models . The first price drops making the
> expansion of the concept feasible .
The answer is simple: too expensive. It's cheaper to generate energy
using the gas tank.
> I have been following the " New Beetle " solar panel stories .
> which leads to a rational query deserving rational commentary .
> Send flames , Childish or OT comments etc to /dev/null .
> The query is simple : why auto makers have not integrated solar
> panels into at least some models . The first price drops making the
> expansion of the concept feasible .
> Economics of mass production seemingly would make this a mutual win
> for all players in the solar economy . IF say - GM orders 2.5 million
> 11 watt panels what price impact does that have over time ?
> I do wonder how much cooling by solar electric powered airflow
> would do to interior temps of parked cars ?
> The marginal viability being that precooling cars decreases fuel
> consumption to cool them . Now the math wizards can debate the
> marginailatity involved but in the real world it makes sense .
> 11 watts times 2.5 million = 27.5 megawatts per year of demand ....
> What's the year when the cost per watt becomes the minimum possible ?
> Minimum defined as the free market's lowest viable contract pricing.
> The concept I was taught explaining certain scaling economics is that
> Serial # 1 "costs" a megabuck and serial # 1 million can- in some
> cases cost nothing . This claim seems like voodoo accounting at
> first but after assignments of general ledger factorials such as
> "other revenue streams " it makes an oddly persuasive model .
> Example - by selling your process tech as cost defrayal. Or maybe -
> Vertical integrations such as selling electric cars skinned with your
> cells that are priced at a point set by internal company dynamics ..
> The factorials inherent that contracting for tons of glass per year
> Vs pounds drive costing to ultimate minima . See Wal-Mart for details.
> And here's the closer . As cars get retired the PV panels become
> either recycled into the production line or resold for other uses .
> Because if we continue trashing instead of engineered dissasembly
> soon all tech issues will be moot as the resources will be landfilled.
Posted by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roland_M=F6sl?= on July 19, 2004, 6:57 am
> > The query is simple : why auto makers have not integrated solar
> > panels into at least some models . The first price drops making the
> > expansion of the concept feasible .
> The answer is simple: too expensive. It's cheaper to generate energy
> using the gas tank.
Wrong.
When I buy ice, I have to drive immedeately home.
No chance to hold it cool in the car.
Also, in Europe, it's forbidden to let the engine run in a parked car
--
Roland Mösl
http://www.pege.org Clear targets for a confused civilization
http://web-design-suite.com Web Design starts at the search engine
Posted by Anthony Matonak on July 19, 2004, 12:51 pm
Roland Mösl wrote:
>>>The query is simple : why auto makers have not integrated solar
>>>panels into at least some models . The first price drops making the
>>>expansion of the concept feasible .
>
>>The answer is simple: too expensive. It's cheaper to generate energy
>>using the gas tank.
>
> When I buy ice, I have to drive immedeately home.
> No chance to hold it cool in the car.
>
> Also, in Europe, it's forbidden to let the engine run in a parked car
You want to leave a block of ice in your parked car, sitting in the
sun, for long periods of time? Well, I'd recommend putting it in
an ice chest. If that isn't good enough then you can encase the ice
chest in several inches of foam insulation inside a larger box. If
that isn't good enough then you can pick up some dry ice as well
and place it inside the same cooler. If that's not good enough then
your cheapest method is to buy a generator that runs on gasoline.
Here in Los Angeles, California, it doesn't matter much if it's
forbidden to leave your parked car running with the keys in the
ignition. Few people ever seem to do it twice.
Anthony
> What's the year when the cost per watt becomes the minimum possible ?
> Minimum defined as the free market's lowest viable contract pricing.