Posted by Mario,South Africa on April 23, 2006, 10:49 am
Hello everyone. Anybody who knows if the following is possible?
I am a Paraglider Pilot (Glorified parachute) and I am busy with my
Paramotor license. (A Paramotor is a paraglider with a small engine+prop
(0.8m - 1.3m) carried on the pilot's back which gives 40-50Kg force with a
12-20KW engine. The whole thing weights about 20-25Kg). My idea is to
replace the internal combustion engine with a electric one of similar weight
and power. Now If you don't know anything about paramotors - I only need
12+Kw (and 40 or so Kg of push) for a minute or so during take off. In
normal flight 4-8Kg of force is enough to keep me in the air ! Because of
this the internal combustion engine is build very light with no proper
cooling (does not need to anyway). I have found a suitable engine within
minutes on google (15KW max for a few minutes 7KW continuous at 36v (48v)
and only weights 10Kg !) Also the propeller can be made bigger to increase
efficiency (a 1.5m - 1.8m max which will give approx. 6Kg - 8Kg force per
Kw) I intend on using a super cap for the 30 seconds or so of extra take off
power (they are plenty within the weight limit which stores enough for the
short time) . The only thing I don't have is a light, flexible solar panel
aprox. 3x9m to work into the upper surface of the glider/wing. I thought the
power can be carried thru the control lines to the engine/cap. It must be
around 12% to 15% efficient to give me the 2.5Kw or so I need for the
electric motor which in turn will convert 90% or so to mechanical energy
(turning motion for the prop). Any ideas?
Posted by Solar Flare on April 23, 2006, 11:16 am
Go under a cloud and your thermals and your power goes away.
Have you compensated for the increased weight of the solar panels? How
about the breakage factor of rigid ones?
> Hello everyone. Anybody who knows if the following is possible?
> I am a Paraglider Pilot (Glorified parachute) and I am busy with my
> Paramotor license. (A Paramotor is a paraglider with a small
> engine+prop (0.8m - 1.3m) carried on the pilot's back which gives
> 40-50Kg force with a 12-20KW engine. The whole thing weights about
> 20-25Kg). My idea is to replace the internal combustion engine with
> a electric one of similar weight and power. Now If you don't know
> anything about paramotors - I only need 12+Kw (and 40 or so Kg of
> push) for a minute or so during take off. In normal flight 4-8Kg of
> force is enough to keep me in the air ! Because of this the internal
> combustion engine is build very light with no proper cooling (does
> not need to anyway). I have found a suitable engine within minutes
> on google (15KW max for a few minutes 7KW continuous at 36v (48v)
> and only weights 10Kg !) Also the propeller can be made bigger to
> increase efficiency (a 1.5m - 1.8m max which will give approx. 6Kg -
> 8Kg force per Kw) I intend on using a super cap for the 30 seconds
> or so of extra take off power (they are plenty within the weight
> limit which stores enough for the short time) . The only thing I
> don't have is a light, flexible solar panel aprox. 3x9m to work into
> the upper surface of the glider/wing. I thought the power can be
> carried thru the control lines to the engine/cap. It must be around
> 12% to 15% efficient to give me the 2.5Kw or so I need for the
> electric motor which in turn will convert 90% or so to mechanical
> energy (turning motion for the prop). Any ideas?
>
Posted by Mario,South Africa on April 23, 2006, 12:43 pm
Huh buddy, first thanks for bothering to answer. Secondly if I manage to
get under a cloud I won't bother about solar anyway :-) That's the beauty
about the system. The 2 energy sources (wind and solar) complement each
other perfectly when used like described. Cloud above means thermal
underneath (most of the time) - so no worry there. Here in South Africa's
semidesert region where I (un)fortunately reside, clouds are scarce, to say
the least, that's why I am thinking solar (more then plenty) I have found
all the 'ingredients' on the Internet to build a hopefully flyable thing -
apart of the solar generator part. I've found that too (flexible and enough
power believe it or not) the problem is weight ! I can 'absorb' 10-15 Kg on
the top side of the wing, but the flexible solar cells I've found are more
like 85Kg ! ! !
Here is the one link
http://www.siliconsolar.com/shop/catalog/Flexible-Solar-Panel-10-Watt-p-54.html
if this (weight) can be somehow sorted out then I don't see any other
problems to build my 'Dream-Machine'. I have also come across a French site
which builds Electric paramotors using Nicd/Ni-mh batt.(good for about 15min
power)
By the way I am a qualified electronic technician and paraglider pilot :-)
so I have a good Idea what I am talking about. Please help me with a link or
something to a lighter flexible solar panel.
Greetings from South Africa,
Mario
> Go under a cloud and your thermals and your power goes away.
> Have you compensated for the increased weight of the solar panels? How
> about the breakage factor of rigid ones?
>> Hello everyone. Anybody who knows if the following is possible?
>> I am a Paraglider Pilot (Glorified parachute) and I am busy with my
>> Paramotor license. (A Paramotor is a paraglider with a small engine+prop
>> (0.8m - 1.3m) carried on the pilot's back which gives 40-50Kg force with
>> a 12-20KW engine. The whole thing weights about 20-25Kg). My idea is to
>> replace the internal combustion engine with a electric one of similar
>> weight and power. Now If you don't know anything about paramotors - I
>> only need 12+Kw (and 40 or so Kg of push) for a minute or so during take
>> off. In normal flight 4-8Kg of force is enough to keep me in the air !
>> Because of this the internal combustion engine is build very light with
>> no proper cooling (does not need to anyway). I have found a suitable
>> engine within minutes on google (15KW max for a few minutes 7KW
>> continuous at 36v (48v) and only weights 10Kg !) Also the propeller can
>> be made bigger to increase efficiency (a 1.5m - 1.8m max which will give
>> approx. 6Kg - 8Kg force per Kw) I intend on using a super cap for the 30
>> seconds or so of extra take off power (they are plenty within the weight
>> limit which stores enough for the short time) . The only thing I don't
>> have is a light, flexible solar panel aprox. 3x9m to work into the upper
>> surface of the glider/wing. I thought the power can be carried thru the
>> control lines to the engine/cap. It must be around 12% to 15% efficient
>> to give me the 2.5Kw or so I need for the electric motor which in turn
>> will convert 90% or so to mechanical energy (turning motion for the
>> prop). Any ideas?
>>
>
Posted by SJC on April 23, 2006, 1:08 pm
> Huh buddy, first thanks for bothering to answer. Secondly if I manage to
> get under a cloud I won't bother about solar anyway :-) That's the beauty
> about the system. The 2 energy sources (wind and solar) complement each
> other perfectly when used like described. Cloud above means thermal
> underneath (most of the time) - so no worry there. Here in South Africa's
> semidesert region where I (un)fortunately reside, clouds are scarce, to say
> the least, that's why I am thinking solar (more then plenty) I have found
> all the 'ingredients' on the Internet to build a hopefully flyable thing -
> apart of the solar generator part. I've found that too (flexible and enough
> power believe it or not) the problem is weight ! I can 'absorb' 10-15 Kg on
> the top side of the wing, but the flexible solar cells I've found are more
> like 85Kg ! ! !
> Here is the one link
> http://www.siliconsolar.com/shop/catalog/Flexible-Solar-Panel-10-Watt-p-5=
4.html
> if this (weight) can be somehow sorted out then I don't see any other
> problems to build my 'Dream-Machine'. I have also come across a French site
> which builds Electric paramotors using Nicd/Ni-mh batt.(good for about 15min
> power)
> By the way I am a qualified electronic technician and paraglider pilot :-)
> so I have a good Idea what I am talking about. Please help me with a link or
> something to a lighter flexible solar panel.
> Greetings from South Africa,
> Mario
These people specialize in flexible thin film, along with other =
companies.
http://www.globalsolar.com/
The power output is less than silicon wafer type and the cost is quite =
high,
but they are flexible and can be light if you can do without the heavy =
backing
on the panels for mounting and prolonged weatherproofing.
But if you only have say 10 square meters of area, you could only get =
maybe
500 watts. Not enough to power your 10kw motor. So now you have =
batteries
and the solar is just to prolong flight.
Batteries could be 30 pounds per kilowatt hour, so you might need 150 =
pounds
of batteries for 1/2 hour of flight and the solar would only extend that =
for a bit.
If you can handle 150 pounds of batteries, it might be better to go with =
batteries
alone rather than an expensive solar array, that can only assist just a =
bit.
>
>> Go under a cloud and your thermals and your power goes away.
>>
>> Have you compensated for the increased weight of the solar panels? How
>> about the breakage factor of rigid ones?
>>
>>> Hello everyone. Anybody who knows if the following is possible?
>>> I am a Paraglider Pilot (Glorified parachute) and I am busy with my
>>> Paramotor license. (A Paramotor is a paraglider with a small engine+prop
>>> (0.8m - 1.3m) carried on the pilot's back which gives 40-50Kg force with
>>> a 12-20KW engine. The whole thing weights about 20-25Kg). My idea is to
>>> replace the internal combustion engine with a electric one of similar
>>> weight and power. Now If you don't know anything about paramotors - I
>>> only need 12+Kw (and 40 or so Kg of push) for a minute or so during take
>>> off. In normal flight 4-8Kg of force is enough to keep me in the air !
>>> Because of this the internal combustion engine is build very light with
>>> no proper cooling (does not need to anyway). I have found a suitable
>>> engine within minutes on google (15KW max for a few minutes 7KW
>>> continuous at 36v (48v) and only weights 10Kg !) Also the propeller can
>>> be made bigger to increase efficiency (a 1.5m - 1.8m max which will give
>>> approx. 6Kg - 8Kg force per Kw) I intend on using a super cap for the 30
>>> seconds or so of extra take off power (they are plenty within the weight
>>> limit which stores enough for the short time) . The only thing I don't
>>> have is a light, flexible solar panel aprox. 3x9m to work into the upper
>>> surface of the glider/wing. I thought the power can be carried thru the
>>> control lines to the engine/cap. It must be around 12% to 15% efficient
>>> to give me the 2.5Kw or so I need for the electric motor which in turn
>>> will convert 90% or so to mechanical energy (turning motion for the
>>> prop). Any ideas?
>>>
>>
>>
>
Posted by BobG on April 23, 2006, 3:28 pm
Maybe a little ducted fan brushless dc motor like the model jet planes
use on a glider? I used to see that little BD5 Silver Bullet jet at air
shows... it seemed to really get around on a 75 pound thrust turbine.
How much thrust would you need to climg in a glider?
> I am a Paraglider Pilot (Glorified parachute) and I am busy with my
> Paramotor license. (A Paramotor is a paraglider with a small
> engine+prop (0.8m - 1.3m) carried on the pilot's back which gives
> 40-50Kg force with a 12-20KW engine. The whole thing weights about
> 20-25Kg). My idea is to replace the internal combustion engine with
> a electric one of similar weight and power. Now If you don't know
> anything about paramotors - I only need 12+Kw (and 40 or so Kg of
> push) for a minute or so during take off. In normal flight 4-8Kg of
> force is enough to keep me in the air ! Because of this the internal
> combustion engine is build very light with no proper cooling (does
> not need to anyway). I have found a suitable engine within minutes
> on google (15KW max for a few minutes 7KW continuous at 36v (48v)
> and only weights 10Kg !) Also the propeller can be made bigger to
> increase efficiency (a 1.5m - 1.8m max which will give approx. 6Kg -
> 8Kg force per Kw) I intend on using a super cap for the 30 seconds
> or so of extra take off power (they are plenty within the weight
> limit which stores enough for the short time) . The only thing I
> don't have is a light, flexible solar panel aprox. 3x9m to work into
> the upper surface of the glider/wing. I thought the power can be
> carried thru the control lines to the engine/cap. It must be around
> 12% to 15% efficient to give me the 2.5Kw or so I need for the
> electric motor which in turn will convert 90% or so to mechanical
> energy (turning motion for the prop). Any ideas?
>