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What are some payback times for systems currently installed? - Page 6

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Posted by argusy on November 17, 2011, 10:17 pm
 
On 17/11/11 4:36 AM, Mho wrote:

sometimes,

<-->

LOL. The Company buys lots of equipment that communicates directly back to the
vendor, so they can analyse problems without leaving their desk (in Japan,
Germany, Italy - wherever), so I appreciate your comments on manufacturers
clamming up.

I put off buying a book on serial comms by Dick Grier for years, but when I
couldn't get anything to work properly (even with all the info I gleaned from
the 16 visual basic books I have, and the internet), I took the plunge and
bought it.

Seriously, this guy really knows serial comms and how to write programs (in VB)!

It gave me the info on what I was doing wrong.

I'd dearly love to get the HP serial analyser we have at work, even over a
weekend, so I can see just what this Sunny Roo inverter uses for protocols. Even
the older Atlantic analyser would do, but I was told not to, by the manager.

The great thing about the HP was it could communicate, trap data and replay it,
so it made my life a lot easier finding comms problems on the company equipment

sigh....

I just might steal it <grin>

Never got into X10 (know it exists as about my limit). Sounds like you've been
doing (or thinking about) what I've always been interested in - wiring up a
house with things that talk to each other (or at least controlled by a central
source).

At 64, though, my drive is heading for a drink under a brolly, on the beach,
wasting time, watching the tide roll in.....

Errr....  sounds like a song from the sixties...


Posted by Mho on November 23, 2011, 4:53 am
 
Yeah, X10 was a lot of fun until the wireless stuff goes haywire and sends
out codes without provocation. I have no analysers but  know that X10 codes
are fairly secure with some checks so it must be some intelligent device
making the remotes understand. Put in filters so I could stop blaming
neighbours etc...

Now I moved and running a co-gen that interferes with most X10
communications. There is better stuff out there now but it means tossing
massive amounts of equipment and starting over. I had a lot of fun.

One algorithm I used  was an "at home" simulator. With the better part of a
dozen motion detectors I sensed if no motion was had during the day at key
points and simulated somebody walking through the house looking out the
front door (porch light on then off) then back to the back door and
repeating until back up to the bedroom and all lights went out again. One
vacation we got back and apparently some neighbours that knew we were away
had called the cops after a street meeting with a few more neighbours to
discuss why we weren't answering the door. Strange as these were the "wave
to" and say "hi" once a year type neighbours...LOL I never heard anything
about it from the cops as the neighbours reported would happen.

It cycled my furnace fan depending on occupancy and time of day etc.. Most
of it was just night time motion lamps and a quicker CPU based lamp turnoff
followed by the motion timer OFF, just in case. The X-10 stuff was just not
reliable enough.

The guy that wrote the software and sold the gadgets, years ago, told me he
detected motion on his front lawn and if the doorbell didn't ring within two
minutes he turned the lawn sprinklers on...LOL

Now I would like to get into light sequencing for Christmas lights etc.. and
I understand the better software will co-ordinate with X10 devices too. $$$
SIGH $$$

-------------

Never got into X10 (know it exists as about my limit). Sounds like you've
been
doing (or thinking about) what I've always been interested in - wiring up a
house with things that talk to each other (or at least controlled by a
central
source).

At 64, though, my drive is heading for a drink under a brolly, on the beach,
wasting time, watching the tide roll in.....

Errr....  sounds like a song from the sixties...


Posted by Melodie on December 5, 2011, 9:14 am
 Le 16/11/11 05:08, Mho a crit :

Actually, it really depends on how much you are paying for other sources
of electricity. As other sources get more expensive, PV gets more
attractive.




I don't know how you can seriously claim that, given the amount of
studies that have been undertaken in the last 15 years....

Energy payback time is generally under 3 years, but goes as low as under
1 year if you are in a particularily high insolation place.

Check out the IEA studies, PVPS, or Alsema or Fthenakis...





Posted by Mho on December 19, 2011, 5:17 am
 Real easy but you would have to actually read those studies and be able to
basic math.

Let's say you buy a 1000 Watts of PV panels and get them for a good
price...say $ per watt and let's not consider the mounting and inverter,
hookup, taxes, permits and electrician costs to accomplish this. so we now
have $,000 of panels.

Most places the insolation factor is about 4 hours +/- some.

With 365 days per year (we all get that)

and grid energy at say $.10 / kWh (we pay 5.8 cents plus add-ons)

We now have 1000 watts of PV x 4 hours x 365 days x $.11 = $60 of
generating capacity per anum.

Now your LOI on your money will come to about $000 x 5% (or more) = $00
per annum.

DO some magic and pay of your $00 per annum in interest alone with your
$60 of generation income.

When you're don't forget to add in the amortization of your additional
factors, the inefficiency of your electronics and maintenance costs. Don't
forget how much more your roof will cost to have the panels all removed and
remounted next shingle change.

There is no payback unless somebody else pays your bills and hides the costs
in everybody else's income tax.

PV welfare anybody?

Only somebody making profits from this can seriously promote PV without
looking foolish.

Artificially high energy rates, subsidies and lower prices help balance the
books.


------------

Actually, it really depends on how much you are paying for other sources
of electricity. As other sources get more expensive, PV gets more
attractive.

I don't know how you can seriously claim that, given the amount of
studies that have been undertaken in the last 15 years....

Energy payback time is generally under 3 years, but goes as low as under
1 year if you are in a particularily high insolation place.

Check out the IEA studies, PVPS, or Alsema or Fthenakis...





Posted by argusy on December 19, 2011, 8:09 am
 On 19/12/11 3:47 PM, Mho wrote:


Not to put you on the spot, but 1000 * 4 * 365 * .11 divided by 100 (makes it
dollars, not cents) comes to $606 dollars.

As I pointed out in a previous reply, I do things like this in my head, and got
about $600.

Now without any other of your arguments to check, you've already shot yourself
in the foot.

Need I say any more about your math or reasoning - I think not

Graham





basic

panels.

books.


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