Posted by Jeff on December 21, 2007, 10:51 pm
sno wrote:
>
> nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>>
>>> Ideally, I'd be able to move the heat into storage very rapidly and
>>> then pull it out fairly slowly...
>
> You can do that with barrels if you use a trickle collector...use
> epoxied hose between individual barrels to connect them...and a
> small pump to circulate water....extract heat as you are presently
> planning....
I think Morris will be discharging with circulated air, but I'm
interested in connecting barrels together as I may do that for quick and
dirty storage.
Do you have any experience or tips on daisy chaining barrels together
for a common store? The easiest way is to have an overflow output near
the top of a barrel feed a hose that empties into the bottom of the
next. That would feed the hottest water to the bottom and I'm not so
sure it would even work, but it seems like all the barrels would seek
the same level.
Jeff
>
> thanks for listening to my thoughts...have fun.....sno
>
>> You might have 2 thermal masses, a "high-bandwidth" low-mass overnight
>> store with a large daily temp swing and a high surface-to-volume ratio,
>> (eg some shallow water trays under a ceiling) and a larger mass with
>> a smaller S/A ratio (eg some 55 gallon drums) that's trickle-charged
>> on an average day and fully discharges over a week.
>>
>> Nick
>
Posted by sno on December 22, 2007, 7:55 am
Jeff wrote:
>
> sno wrote:
> >
> > nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ideally, I'd be able to move the heat into storage very rapidly and
> >>> then pull it out fairly slowly...
> >
> > You can do that with barrels if you use a trickle collector...use
> > epoxied hose between individual barrels to connect them...and a
> > small pump to circulate water....extract heat as you are presently
> > planning....
>
> I think Morris will be discharging with circulated air, but I'm
> interested in connecting barrels together as I may do that for quick and
> dirty storage.
>
> Do you have any experience or tips on daisy chaining barrels together
> for a common store? The easiest way is to have an overflow output near
> the top of a barrel feed a hose that empties into the bottom of the
> next. That would feed the hottest water to the bottom and I'm not so
> sure it would even work, but it seems like all the barrels would seek
> the same level.
>
> Jeff
Way back when was thinking about a solar closet....and it seemed like
the trickle collector was the way to go.....ended up that I never
needed to build one as I ended up using my attic air to heat house...
my conclusion at the time is that as long as you were using a pump
how or where you connected them together did not make a lot of
difference....they would heat up just as quickly....and when you
blew air over them (planned on using box fan) they would cool down
pretty much all together......thought they would act like one big
storage tank....but would be easier to get the heat out of using
air.
have fun.....sno
>
> >
> > thanks for listening to my thoughts...have fun.....sno
> >
> >> You might have 2 thermal masses, a "high-bandwidth" low-mass overnight
> >> store with a large daily temp swing and a high surface-to-volume ratio,
> >> (eg some shallow water trays under a ceiling) and a larger mass with
> >> a smaller S/A ratio (eg some 55 gallon drums) that's trickle-charged
> >> on an average day and fully discharges over a week.
> >>
> >> Nick
> >
--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???
Nuclear power is the only proven technology that
can solve our energy problems.....
This tag line is generated by:
SLNG (Silly Little Nuclear Generator)
Posted by sno on December 22, 2007, 12:02 pm
sno wrote:
>
> Jeff wrote:
> >
> > sno wrote:
> > >
> > > nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Ideally, I'd be able to move the heat into storage very rapidly and
> > >>> then pull it out fairly slowly...
> > >
> > > You can do that with barrels if you use a trickle collector...use
> > > epoxied hose between individual barrels to connect them...and a
> > > small pump to circulate water....extract heat as you are presently
> > > planning....
> >
> > I think Morris will be discharging with circulated air, but I'm
> > interested in connecting barrels together as I may do that for quick and
> > dirty storage.
> >
> > Do you have any experience or tips on daisy chaining barrels together
> > for a common store? The easiest way is to have an overflow output near
> > the top of a barrel feed a hose that empties into the bottom of the
> > next. That would feed the hottest water to the bottom and I'm not so
> > sure it would even work, but it seems like all the barrels would seek
> > the same level.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Way back when was thinking about a solar closet....and it seemed like
> the trickle collector was the way to go.....ended up that I never
> needed to build one as I ended up using my attic air to heat house...
> my conclusion at the time is that as long as you were using a pump
> how or where you connected them together did not make a lot of
> difference....they would heat up just as quickly....and when you
> blew air over them (planned on using box fan) they would cool down
> pretty much all together......thought they would act like one big
> storage tank....but would be easier to get the heat out of using
> air.
>
> have fun.....sno
> >
> > >
> > > thanks for listening to my thoughts...have fun.....sno
> > >
> > >> You might have 2 thermal masses, a "high-bandwidth" low-mass overnight
> > >> store with a large daily temp swing and a high surface-to-volume ratio,
> > >> (eg some shallow water trays under a ceiling) and a larger mass with
> > >> a smaller S/A ratio (eg some 55 gallon drums) that's trickle-charged
> > >> on an average day and fully discharges over a week.
> > >>
> > >> Nick
> > >
>
Just thought I would add a couple more thoughts if anyone wants to play
with a water trickle collector....
Has some advantages over air....can be installed away from house and
easily connected to house/radiator with commercial garden
hose....I think that a trickle collector can be pretty efficient....
do not know how it compares to air....goodyear commercial hose can
handle boiling temperatures without any harmful effects...does not
break down with ultraviolet....is not bothered if frozen...do not
remember figuring out how to insulate hose....I think you can buy
split round foam pipe insulation....??
I had thought of using soaking hose as a easy header on collector...
hose is low pressure....weeps about 1 gal/hr/foot.....
http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG 55
I have not tried any of this....just some things I remember from when
I was thinking about it.....
Also was thinking about using oil instead of water....to prevent
condensation on collector glass cover....do not know how well it
would work....never read or heard of anyone trying a oil trickle
collector....
All this thinking came about when I read about someone building
houses using water trickle collector with tank under house....
do not remember his name.....
have fun.....sno
Posted by Morris Dovey on December 25, 2007, 7:19 pm
Morris Dovey wrote:
| I'll probably test with the real deal - which I'd need to do
| anyway. I plan to post photos and data on my seb site when the
| testing is complete.
Guessing that other people may want to do a bit of data collection on
their systems, I've created a directory at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Monitor/
where I've posted a block diagram [Monitor.jpg] of my planned initial
hardware (black) with some hoped-for early enhancements (blue).
The USB2 to 1-wire converter, the insolation sensor, and the first two
temperature sensors arrived yesterday.
I still haven't solved the flow sensor problem, but think that I may
be able to cobble one together using a little CPU fan and an
opto-isolator, tied to the 1-wire daisy chain.
The terminal will be an old Televideo CRT terminal that's been sitting
in storage for long enough that I should probably have a fire
extinguisher handy when I power it up. <g>
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Posted by sylvan butler on December 25, 2007, 11:35 pm
> I still haven't solved the flow sensor problem, but think that I may
> be able to cobble one together using a little CPU fan and an
> opto-isolator, tied to the 1-wire daisy chain.
I recommend putting a 1-wire counter on the output of the opto. Then
the software just has to read the count instead of trying not a miss a
tick. (this is the way the 1-wire wind speed and rain gauge are built,
and you could probably use the rain gauge conversion board for your
counter.)
sdb
--
What's seen on your screen? http://PcScreenWatch.com
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com
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> nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>>
>>> Ideally, I'd be able to move the heat into storage very rapidly and
>>> then pull it out fairly slowly...
>
> You can do that with barrels if you use a trickle collector...use
> epoxied hose between individual barrels to connect them...and a
> small pump to circulate water....extract heat as you are presently
> planning....