Posted by Don Kelly on October 30, 2003, 3:10 am
This proposal is not new. However, what also is not new is that it does not
A heat pump is a form of heat engine and does not violate the principles of
thermodynamics or physics (in fact knowledge of these principles led to the
invention of the heat pump). Unfortunately, the same principles apply to
conversion of the output heat into the mechanical (or whatever)energy needed
to drive the heat pump follows exactly the same rules . With
"perfect"conversion, this process will have an efficiency of 33.33..% . 1/3
of 3 is 1.
The result is that a "perfect" heat pump will produce only enough energy to
run itself- with nothing left over. From an useful output point of view
it's a complicated and expensive way to do nothing. A "real" heat
pump/engine won't even do this because of losses- making it an even more
expensive way to do nothing.
I suggest that you study the thermodynamics of a heat pump/engine- the
reason the proposal doesn't work is quite apparent. This has been covered
before on this newsgroup.
Conservation of energy still wins -
remove the urine to answer
Posted by Mitch Dickson on October 30, 2003, 4:56 am
Jack, your question is too wierd to answer :) You can build a heat pump
that will work off solar, propane, coal or wood instead of electricity
utilizing a stirling engine but a perpetual motion self contained version
does not yet exist or we all would have them!
"Come by and sit a spell with me at www.volstate.net/~mitch/ "
Posted by Jack on October 30, 2003, 9:46 am
you are right
so let's combine Stirling engine and heatpump into one heat energy
Use Stirling engine to operate heatpump.
That's all what I need.
I already know how to operate Stirling engine in the summer( warming by
sun, cooling by a water)
but how to operate Stirling engine in the winter or in the night ?
Mitch Dickson wrote:
Inventor of Tomosonography and Tomoultrasonography
Global Inventors Organization
20 inventions for auction sale
starting bid $ 100 a piece
Posted by Fred B. McGalliard on October 30, 2003, 3:30 pm
You need to have a storage media for the heat (rock, water, some phase
change material, even sand or dry dirt). You then use this to run the
stirling. If you were willing to build a room sized unit to get a few KW,
you could use a swimming pool to store the mean summer temperature and run
your heat engine between the warm pool and the icy outside temp. No
collector needed, but you would have to circulate the air for the ambient
side heat exchanger, and it would take a really large stirling because of
the low temperature difference. That's about as close to perpetual motion as
it gets, I think.
Posted by daestrom on October 30, 2003, 9:35 pm
If you have a source of heat to run your Stirling engine (to drive a heat
pump), why not just use the source of heat directly?? Much simpler, and
Mind you, if your heat source is a much higher temperature than you need for
heating, I suppose you *could* get enough work out of it to run a heat pump
that delivers more energy at a temperature closer to your heating needs.
But with losses, it would be rather 'iffy'.