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Ideas for solar power in home -- - Page 15

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Posted by Josh Hill on February 9, 2006, 1:34 am
 
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 21:00:28 +0000 (UTC), dold@XReXXIdeas.usenet.us.com
wrote:


That's a good point. I was thinking in terms of positive cash flow,
but neutral cash flow would work as well.


I've seen some other programs that accomplish this to varying degrees.
Here in Connecticut, forex, the state offers low-interest energy loans
to qualified borrowers, though I gather it's left up to the buyer to
figure out whether he'll get positive cash flow.

An excellent point that some have made is that the return on an energy
saving loan is interest free, and depending on the investment can be
fairly spectacular compared to a similar amount invested in real
estate or the stock market. Some friends here invested in a geothermal
heat pump -- extremely expensive, but with gas prices being what they
are they hit payback far sooner than they thought they would, in just
a few years. But I'm afraid most people don't look at it that way --
they see it as an expense . . .

--
Josh

"President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt
have
all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader scale." - Alberto
Gonzales

Posted by dold on February 9, 2006, 10:30 pm
 

Part of my solar proposal ROI was the "continuation of the
historic PG&E rate increases", which I took at face value, because it made
moderate difference in the payback date, and I really wasn't concerned
whether it was 5, 10, or 15 years.

I've been looking at PG&E rates over the last 10 years.  They are all
online at PGE.com, but in separate files.  The early ones are in effect for
a couple of years, but recently the rate increases have come closer and
closer together, there were four in 05.  What I don't see is any increase
in the "baseline" rates.  What I do see is rises in the "over baseline"
rates.  The base went down a couple of pennies per kwh for the summertime
peak usage on the baseline, but is higher for the top tier.


Term,    TOU Peak base,    toptier over baseline
960101    $.31524    N/A
060101    $.29372    $.49422
    non-TOU         
960101    $.11589        $.12229
060101    $.11430        $.33039

Installing solar, even if it doesn't produce enough energy to satisfy your
total demand, will lower your usage into the cheaper ranges in the
summertime months.  On a dollar for dollar basis, the first few kw should
be easy to justify, the last few are pretty cheap from the grid.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA  38.8,-122.5


Posted by Jim Baber on February 11, 2006, 7:49 pm
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Jim Baber wrote:

Josh Hill wrote:


Not only is the return interest free, but once the loan is repaid these
'savings' are an income usable as discretional funds that can be spent
without incuring further earnings effort or taxes.

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Posted by SJC on February 11, 2006, 8:06 pm
 

  I always thought that if you refinance your mortgage and use the cash
out for a solar home improvement, the interest on that is tax deductable.
Since home mortgages are probably lower interest than just a loan for
the solar upgrade alone, you save money. That way you are paying the
mortgage company for capital improvments instead of the utility company.


Posted by Jim Baber on February 11, 2006, 9:31 pm
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SJC wrote:


That thought just is a part of the tax implications, when I re-financed
to pay for our system the original loan 30 year had been in effect for
12 years and our income tax interest deductions were considerably less
than a new loan's deductions would be.  I re-financed for 15 years
instead of the original 30 and even though the interest rate dropped
(saved us some also) on the new loan, our net income tax decreased
because of the new loan's larger allowable tax deductions (state an
federal income taxes both restarted their deduction schedules based on
the new loan balance) and this tax decrease alone will pay over a
quarter of the cost of my system in the first 6 years.


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