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Posted by J. Clarke on August 3, 2008, 3:42 am
 
Mauried wrote:

You can also burn it in an internal combustion engine, just like
gasoline.  If the "storage losses" for gasoline are acceptable then
they are for hydrogen.  However what you are describing is a
conversion loss, not a storage loss.

In any case fuel cells are available with efficiencies as high as 80
per cent.  As for producing heat, you are confused--some cells operate
at high temperatures, but that is not because they "produce a lot of
heat", it is because they are designed to run at that temperature.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Posted by Eeyore on August 3, 2008, 7:50 am
 


Mauried wrote:


Which requires a lot of energy input.



So you're already < 50% efficient



And their lifetime is not that long AIUI and they use expensive materials
like platinum IIRC.



Absolutely.

Graham



Posted by J. Clarke on August 3, 2008, 12:40 pm
 Eeyore wrote:

Calculate this as a percentage of the energy to be derived from
reacting the hydrogen with oxygen.


Only if you accept his premise.


The same is true of the emission control system in every car sold in
the United States in the past 30 years or so.


So you're saying that no energy storage system is practical.  Then I
guess when the oil runs out we have to go back to horse-drawn
transport.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Posted by Eeyore on August 3, 2008, 11:44 pm
 

"J. Clarke" wrote:


That's one way to do it.



The current hydrogen fuel cells I'm aware of are typically around 50%
efficient. Google for yourself if you doubt it.



Also true. But I gather H2 fuel cells have rather shorter lifetimes and
are rather bigger.



Let's say finding an effective, efficient, practical and affordable energy
storage system is going to be one hell of a task.

Graham


Posted by J. Clarke on August 4, 2008, 1:43 am
 Eeyore wrote:

You know another?


Perhaps if you followed your own advice you would be aware that that
is not the case.


The emission control system's catalyst is good for 50,000 miles.
Honda will lease you a fuel cell car now, today, that should do at
least as well.


Hydrogen works, now, today, for energy storage.  The difficulty is the
production infrastructure.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



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