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Perpetum mobile vs. free energy patents

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Posted by Jack on September 19, 2003, 10:02 pm
 
http://www.invent.org/workshop/3_1_3_how_patent_faq.asp

On what subject matter may a patent not be granted?
      A patent may not be granted on a useless device, on printed
      mater, on an improvement in a device which would be obvious
      to a person skilled in the art, or on a machine which will not
      operate, particularly on an alleged perpetual motion machine.

so is a real perpetual motion machine still patentable ?

Should one attach scientific opinion to some Tesla patent applications
relevant to free energy generating ?

How patent office copes with alleged or claimed perpetual motion machine
patent applications ?

Should an inventor to build working prototype first ?

Question to theoreticians and practitians.

Jack

Posted by on September 20, 2003, 1:22 am
 
High and low tide is a good example of perpetual motion. Is it forever?
No. But by the time the moon has zoomed away from Earth we'll all
be long gone.
Our sun provides perpetual weather. Moisture falls to Earth and we
have lakes, rivers and streams at high elevations. We dam them
and produce electricity. Is it forever? No. But as long as it's
going to keep doing it while we as a race are here it's absolute
perfection.
Another area that seems to be perpetual is Earth's molten core.
It seeps out, cools, and then contributes to the weight near the surface
which in turn keeps the fire burning down below. If someone could
invent a material that becomes liquid under the slightest bit of pressure
and then oozes up and out to return to a solid, they could harness that
upward motion to produce useful to us energy. The darn thing would
keep doing it forever. I think this would have to be tried in outer space.
Mother Nature doesn't like competition ;)

Mark (who wants to make Jupitor a hydrogen fueling station)



Posted by Steve O'Hara-Smith on September 20, 2003, 6:44 am
 On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 00:02:35 +0200

J> How patent office copes with alleged or claimed perpetual motion
J> machine patent applications ?
J>
J> Should an inventor to build working prototype first ?

    Many years ago I saw a reproduction of an announcement by the US
PTO to the effect that any perpetual motion machine applications will be
rejected unless there is a working model provided for examination.

    I imagine this is still the case, certainly a working model would
dispel theoretical objections.

    I'll save postings and mention that mark_digital has given several
examples of things which are *not* perpetual motion, just long running.

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Posted by on September 20, 2003, 9:58 am
 
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 00:02:35 +0200

I'll save postings and mention that mark_digital© has given several
examples of things which are *not* perpetual motion, just long running.

*******
When we build a dam we use energy (effort). At some point the dam
will produce more energy than what was used to build it. It seems
that for something to be perpetual motion the same type of energy
used to start it must be the same as the output but less or equal to
it.
Of course the dam would not be functional if it weren't for water
that has been moved by the sun so it is behind the dam over and
over again. But this action requires intervention from the sun. It
takes more energy from the sun to run the meteorological system
which in turn results in the water returning to behind the dam than
the energy we derive from the dam.
I guess you're right. It's not perpetual. It's long running.

Our sun initially provides all the energy we use, so as long as it's around
we'll never be able to make a perpetual motion machine.



Posted by Ivan Lucas on September 23, 2003, 8:17 pm
 The UK patent office does not consider perpetual motion machines. PERIOD.

Even if you could invent it - what could you do with it? If you try and
harness any energy from it, it would cease to be perpetual.

ivan



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