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Re: GFX vs home brew - Page 14

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Posted by Robert Gammon on April 19, 2006, 2:24 pm
Power-Pipe now has a US web site that gets them around the customs  issue.

The pump with differential temperature control is the secret to higher
recovery rates.  Flow rate thru the coil in excess of flow rate of
greywater will more efficiently transfer heat to the potable water.

Actually you could take this a step further and use a water storage tank
intended for solar applications.  It has an internal heat exchanger, and
you could route a working fluid thru Nick's, a GFX, or a Power-Pipe that
was NOT water for higher heat capacity.

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Posted by nicksanspam on April 19, 2006, 4:53 pm

That's irrelevant.

That's quite different from what I have in mind.

How do you manage to be so wrong so often? :-)


Posted by Robert Gammon on April 19, 2006, 5:21 pm
 nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Goto www.gfxtechnology.com/GFX-STAR.html and click on Application Notes
and click on the link to Retrofit of an existing Solar Hot Water Heater.

You sir, need to READ first, before you make accusations that you cannot
back up with facts.

In there he describes a patent pending application of GFX Star in an
industrial process control application.

The models of what happens to the efficiency of his product with
changing potable water flows thru the equipment are there for all to see.

Your attitude makes it DIFFICULT to hold a meaningful conversation with
you.  I'm not the first to say this.

My use of one of these, whether it is yours, a GFX, or a Power Pipe will
closely follow the GFX Star guidelines.  That is, a small, inexpensive
pump controlled by a differential temperature controller will move water
thru the coils ALWAYS in excess of water draw from the hot water tank.  
Very nearly 100% of my hotwater use WILL be going thru a heat exchanger,
and with 4x coil flow to drain flow in almost all of my  cases,
efficiency of a 60inch S4 rises to over 74%.  

I will NOT hang a 7 foot diameter coil of black PE tubing on the wall of
my utility room, one that needs annual disassembly to hose down/ brush
down the interior of the gray water containment pipe.  Neither GFX nor
Power-Pipe need such cleaning as they are NON clogging, even with BLACK
water.  Things may back up upstream or downstream of them, but not
inside them.

OK, its not the 90+% that your model shows, but efficiency and cost are
NOT the only criteria as we have already discussed.

Actually since he has a Patent application pending, if you attempt to
offer a competing product to others that incorporates the ideas of
GFX-Star, he can and probably WILL sue you for damages and shut down
your business.

And since he has hundreds of these installed in the US and Canada, he
has a BIG headstart on you.

Posted by daestrom on April 19, 2006, 10:13 pm


Okay, *I* read the documents.  It is clear that you must have a separate
storage tank for the GFX-star setup to work 'as advertised'.  Only by using
a *cooler* separate storage tank is the setup able to capture the waste heat
from 'batch' drains.  Once the storage tank reaches the temperature of the
greywater (or exceeds it in the conventional heater storage tank),
performance will drop off.

This way can effectively 'shift' the heat from outgoing batch drains to a
separate storage tank of fresh-water.  So the greywater doesn't have to be
stored, and you can still use the low-maintenance, straight-bore, GFX

For 'best' performance, you would want to route the storage tank outlet to
the 'cold' tap for the shower as well.  This looks like their 'tempering
valve' arrangement.  But you might be better off routing straight 'cold'
water from the supply directly to sinks and laundry, bypassing the whole
setup for cold supply to those usage points.  Otherwise you would be wasting
some of the captured heat on laundry, and who wants a glass of warm water to
drink.  Some more plumbing :-(

Someone mentioned some concerns about storage tank of 'warm' water and
Legionarries disease.  But if you have treated water, that probably isn't
too much of a concern.


Posted by Rod Speed on April 19, 2006, 10:54 pm
It is with storage water heaters.

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