Posted by Noon-Air on March 8, 2005, 2:00 am
> LOL. Well the installers have to do 3-4 on a long day every day of the
> prime
> season. This runs from the first hot day over 30C in May/June till
> vacation
> time in July. I am not talking gross profit but rather net. The price may
> have gone up a few hundred more. It's been a while since I have been
> involved directly in this.
I operate on a 50% margin (not mark-up).
> This is why nobody bothers with all that room and window measurement here.
> It doesn';t add up to anything but a guess anyway. With so many sizes
> available 1.5 ton to 3 ton I can be more accurate throwing a pair of dice
> anyway. Since we don't have feet and inches and haven't developed money to
> avoid bartering, if it takes my lead sled dog 5 seconds to run the length
> of
> the house I use a 1.5 ton, for 12 seconds it needs a 3 ton and the rest is
> prorated for times in between.I have this fancy gadget called a thermostat
> and if the temperature in the house gets too cold, it shuts off the
> refrigerator and stops the furnace fan on the central heating unit so if
> the
> unit is a little oversized it doesn't really matter. cool eh?...Do you
> have
> central heating for your huts in the Mozarks? LOL
Yes we do have central heat...problem is getting a small enough furnace that
has a big enough blower drive for the A/C
> This is all based on having an existing central heating system in the
> house
> with capable blowers etc.
thats what I am talking about
> We have welfare but no food stamps I am aware of. Good idea though.
Posted by Gymn Bob on March 8, 2005, 2:29 am
hmmmm. That is an interesting problem (small blower) One that I wouldn't see
here.
Typical new houses get 60,000 BTU up to about 2000 Sq ft. and the A/C get
about 24,000 BTU depending on the size factors and exposure (more of a
guess) Not really much design work to do.
Most contractors here now see (encourage) the home owners to do their own
wiring as they have gotten serious with the inspections and a few years ago
went back and made about 300 installations be upgraded to current standards
at the installer's costs. Nobody was putting in the disconnect device at the
compressor outside. One guy had to replace the whole electrical service
'cause 60A wasn't big enough to satisfy the code. Anyway, most customers get
excited to save some money and if the shit hits the fan then they are the
ones that did it. Most of the A/C guys aren't qualified to wire commercially
and can't get an inspection...LOL. The homwowner gets away with this and
gets advice how to do it from the installers.
> > LOL. Well the installers have to do 3-4 on a long day every day of the
> > prime
> > season. This runs from the first hot day over 30C in May/June till
> > vacation
> > time in July. I am not talking gross profit but rather net. The price
may
> > have gone up a few hundred more. It's been a while since I have been
> > involved directly in this.
> I operate on a 50% margin (not mark-up).
> > This is why nobody bothers with all that room and window measurement
here.
> > It doesn';t add up to anything but a guess anyway. With so many sizes
> > available 1.5 ton to 3 ton I can be more accurate throwing a pair of
dice
> > anyway. Since we don't have feet and inches and haven't developed money
to
> > avoid bartering, if it takes my lead sled dog 5 seconds to run the
length
> > of
> > the house I use a 1.5 ton, for 12 seconds it needs a 3 ton and the rest
is
> > prorated for times in between.I have this fancy gadget called a
thermostat
> > and if the temperature in the house gets too cold, it shuts off the
> > refrigerator and stops the furnace fan on the central heating unit so if
> > the
> > unit is a little oversized it doesn't really matter. cool eh?...Do you
> > have
> > central heating for your huts in the Mozarks? LOL
> Yes we do have central heat...problem is getting a small enough furnace
that
> has a big enough blower drive for the A/C
> > This is all based on having an existing central heating system in the
> > house
> > with capable blowers etc.
> thats what I am talking about
> > We have welfare but no food stamps I am aware of. Good idea though.
> >
Posted by Noon-Air on March 8, 2005, 2:55 am
> hmmmm. That is an interesting problem (small blower) One that I wouldn't
> see
> here.
> Typical new houses get 60,000 BTU up to about 2000 Sq ft. and the A/C get
> about 24,000 BTU depending on the size factors and exposure (more of a
> guess) Not really much design work to do.
> Most contractors here now see (encourage) the home owners to do their own
> wiring as they have gotten serious with the inspections and a few years
> ago
> went back and made about 300 installations be upgraded to current
> standards
> at the installer's costs. Nobody was putting in the disconnect device at
> the
> compressor outside. One guy had to replace the whole electrical service
> 'cause 60A wasn't big enough to satisfy the code. Anyway, most customers
> get
> excited to save some money and if the shit hits the fan then they are the
> ones that did it. Most of the A/C guys aren't qualified to wire
> commercially
> and can't get an inspection...LOL. The homwowner gets away with this and
> gets advice how to do it from the installers.
Best advice I can give you is to get qualified and certified in all aspects
(including electrical), provide premium service and command a premium price.
>>
>> > LOL. Well the installers have to do 3-4 on a long day every day of the
>> > prime
>> > season. This runs from the first hot day over 30C in May/June till
>> > vacation
>> > time in July. I am not talking gross profit but rather net. The price
> may
>> > have gone up a few hundred more. It's been a while since I have been
>> > involved directly in this.
>>
>> I operate on a 50% margin (not mark-up).
>>
>> > This is why nobody bothers with all that room and window measurement
> here.
>> > It doesn';t add up to anything but a guess anyway. With so many sizes
>> > available 1.5 ton to 3 ton I can be more accurate throwing a pair of
> dice
>> > anyway. Since we don't have feet and inches and haven't developed money
> to
>> > avoid bartering, if it takes my lead sled dog 5 seconds to run the
> length
>> > of
>> > the house I use a 1.5 ton, for 12 seconds it needs a 3 ton and the rest
> is
>> > prorated for times in between.I have this fancy gadget called a
> thermostat
>> > and if the temperature in the house gets too cold, it shuts off the
>> > refrigerator and stops the furnace fan on the central heating unit so
>> > if
>> > the
>> > unit is a little oversized it doesn't really matter. cool eh?...Do you
>> > have
>> > central heating for your huts in the Mozarks? LOL
>>
>> Yes we do have central heat...problem is getting a small enough furnace
> that
>> has a big enough blower drive for the A/C
>>
>> > This is all based on having an existing central heating system in the
>> > house
>> > with capable blowers etc.
>>
>> thats what I am talking about
>>
>> > We have welfare but no food stamps I am aware of. Good idea though.
>> >
>>
>>
>
Posted by Abby Normal on March 7, 2005, 1:57 am
There are some serious differences between the Gulf Coast and Canada
Bob.
Gymn Bob wrote:
> I think that "smaller than calculated size is being lost for better
logical
> thinking these days. Although this is a good idea it ends up costing
more to
> run the system and less comfortable by the residents. Sure the
humidity may
> end up being lower but the residence may be overheated upstairs where
the
> sleeping areas are until 3:00 AM in the morning. This overworks the
> compressor and lowers the comfort level or the occupants, not
allowing them
> to live the way they desire.
> A little education and experience goes a long way with your customer
base
> also. In a hot/cold seasonal climate many people like to open their
windows
> when the air conditioner is not required. Suddenly one day the home
becomes
> overheated and before they realize it becomes almost 30C in the home.
The
> windows get shut and the A/C system goes on. The humidity is already
in the
> furniture and walls and the undersized system you have installed now
takes
> 3-4 days to lower the humidity and the temperature. A customer
tossing a
> turning in a 28C home in the middle of the night because it is too
hot is
> not a happy customer and does not "spread the good word" about your
> installation. I hear this complaint all the time in my area. The
humidity is
> the problem with a smaller unit.
> Telling the customer to turn his unit on in May and off in December
may do
> the trick for many people but if you ever have guests over the human
heat at
> the party makes the guests ask "Can you turn the A/C on?" ... another
happy
> customer in front of all his/her friends the system allows the home
to go up
> to 28C.
> Some installation!
> The old paradigm will die hard but people are beginning to learn not
to go
> with the cheapest bidder because he undersized the compressor and A
coils.
> The lower humidity comfort idea is just a myth and not very
acceptable to
> most people after the bill is paid. It usually doesn't provide
comfort in
> the long run.
> This may not apply to regions with more arid climates that don't
endure
> 80-100% RH.
> <bottom posting mess deleted>
> > THis is why a correctly sized and installed system is so important.
When
> in
> > doubt, if the load calc calls for a number of BTU cooling, its best
to
> > actually look at the specs of the equipment componant combination
and the
> > actual BTU capability of the equipment. When in doubt, I personally
will
> > recommend a little bit smaller system maybe a 2 1/2 ton instead of
a 3
> ton,
> > if for nothing else but better humidity control. This also
reinforces the
> > need for expantion valves and variable speed blowers currently only
found
> on
> > the super high efficiency (high dollar) equipment.
> >
> >
> >
Posted by Gymn Bob on March 7, 2005, 3:16 am
I am sure their are. Read my last statement.
> There are some serious differences between the Gulf Coast and Canada
> Bob.
> Gymn Bob wrote:
> > This may not apply to regions with more arid climates that don't
> endure
> > 80-100% RH.
> >
> >
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> prime
> season. This runs from the first hot day over 30C in May/June till
> vacation
> time in July. I am not talking gross profit but rather net. The price may
> have gone up a few hundred more. It's been a while since I have been
> involved directly in this.