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Re: New technology to stop a war - Page 4

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Posted by Morris Dovey on February 8, 2006, 4:36 pm
 
Josh Hill (in t9uju19gtk0f643076vspd3ngc9ukcmt4a@4ax.com) said:

| People just don't know. I mean, when I walk down the street, most of
| the houses on the sunny south side have their blinds drawn -- they
| aren't even taking advantage of existing solar gain. Each building
| has a south-facing porch, many enclosed, that could be turned into
| a solar heater for very little -- nothing more than some vents or a
| thermostat and fan for the enclosed ones. But solar energy is
| complicated and there are a lot of bad options out there.

Sounds like time for someone to do a little educating and informing...
(In general, complexity is inversely related to understanding.)

| It doesn't help that conservatives have some people convinced that
| global warming isn't real. But even those of us who know it is are
| apt to say "Well, there's nothing I can do as an individual -- I'm
| just a drop in the bucket -- so there's really no reason to go to
| the trouble until more people are willing to play along." And
| there's something to be said for that.

Not much - and nothing good. IMO, you're on pretty thin ice if you
blame someone else for your failure to act responsibly.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto



Posted by Josh Hill on February 18, 2006, 2:41 pm
 
wrote:


It's hard to compete with going to a contractor and saying "Should I
put in oil or gas?" I think some work needs to be done on the
availability of solar systems that are not just reliable and
economical but turnkey from the end user's perspective and
aesthetically pleasing.


But people ask themselves whether what they do will make a difference.
And they won't, if they're one in 100 thousand; the effort becomes
symbolic. Which is why I tend to think that government -- the group --
must be involved here, not in a socialistic we'll do it for you sense
but as facilitator and motivator.

--
Josh

"President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt
have
all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader scale." - Alberto
Gonzales

Posted by Morris Dovey on February 18, 2006, 4:42 pm
 Josh Hill (in r5cev1ppcjqs9ohssnmgvhav5bl3nt90ul@4ax.com) said:

| wrote:
|
|| Josh Hill (in t9uju19gtk0f643076vspd3ngc9ukcmt4a@4ax.com) said:
||
||| People just don't know. I mean, when I walk down the street, most
||| of the houses on the sunny south side have their blinds drawn --
||| they aren't even taking advantage of existing solar gain. Each
||| building has a south-facing porch, many enclosed, that could be
||| turned into a solar heater for very little -- nothing more than
||| some vents or a thermostat and fan for the enclosed ones. But
||| solar energy is complicated and there are a lot of bad options
||| out there.
||
|| Sounds like time for someone to do a little educating and
|| informing... (In general, complexity is inversely related to
|| understanding.)
|
| It's hard to compete with going to a contractor and saying "Should I
| put in oil or gas?" I think some work needs to be done on the
| availability of solar systems that are not just reliable and
| economical but turnkey from the end user's perspective and
| aesthetically pleasing.

True insofar as there'll always be work that needs to be done. There
already _are_ turnkey systems that are reliable and economical. I
think the panels I make are beautiful; but beauty is always "in the
eye of the beholder". :-)
|
||| It doesn't help that conservatives have some people convinced that
||| global warming isn't real. But even those of us who know it is are
||| apt to say "Well, there's nothing I can do as an individual -- I'm
||| just a drop in the bucket -- so there's really no reason to go to
||| the trouble until more people are willing to play along." And
||| there's something to be said for that.
||
|| Not much - and nothing good. IMO, you're on pretty thin ice if you
|| blame someone else for your failure to act responsibly.
|
| But people ask themselves whether what they do will make a
| difference. And they won't, if they're one in 100 thousand; the
| effort becomes symbolic. Which is why I tend to think that
| government -- the group -- must be involved here, not in a
| socialistic we'll do it for you sense but as facilitator and
| motivator.

And _still_ nothing happens except individuals provide education and
leadership. I would agree that cooperative government behaviors could
make the process go faster. Just don't forget that government (even
with the best intentions) has a way of introducing delay and waste
into even the most efficient of processes. Government "help" could
well backfire...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto



Posted by Josh Hill on February 18, 2006, 6:17 pm
 wrote:


I can see the arguments of 400 years ago:

"I will /not/ have that Uglie Bricke Encumbrance upon my Nice Thatche
Roofe!"

"But Deare, a Chimney shall allow us to burne Coale, by virtue of
whiche New and Extraordinarie Fuele we shall save no lesse than Two
Pence a Weecke."

Which is to say that it seems to me that some of what we accept as
aesthetically pleasing is just a matter of habit . . .

But we do have to deal with those habits, and with the fact that a lot
of solar stuff really doesn't look good, in the same way that a tin
pipe with a cone on the end doesn't look as nice as a brick chimney .
. . I've found aesthetic concerns to be among the most difficult to
deal with.


Sure -- it's just that I don't see an alternative to government action
right now, because I think that the global warming problem is becoming
time critical. Also, some of what government would be doing in this
case is undoing what government has done by directly and indirectly
subsidizing the consumption of carbon-based fuel.

--
Josh

"President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt
have
all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader scale." - Alberto
Gonzales

Posted by Nigel Kerr on February 6, 2006, 5:04 pm
 


Well Josh you said a lot there and from a US point of view I cant fault any
of it however in the UK we already have nuclear power stations and they were
in the process of reducing the numbers because compared to the USA we don't
have so many out of the way places maybe only the Scottish isles etc.
Many people are scared of nuclear accidents and now even more so terrorism.
Solar I would think is very limited as to it's use but I could be wrong as
there are houses with it fitted maybe more so in the South of England. As it
says here http://www.darvill.clara.net/altenerg/solar.htm  "In the United
Kingdom, solar power isn't much use except for low-power applications, as
you need a very large area of solar panels to get a decent amount of power".

So to me the only solar solution would be to have it run a conversion
process in an other country!
Hence somewhere hot and where we will be able to keep people gamefully
employed there not over here. :-)
If water to gas there would also be no need for oil refineries so the fuel
could be used straight out of the machine.

Geo-thermal I can not comment on I don't know of any testing of it in the
UK.
We have the world's first commercial nuclear power station at Seascale and I
am told it could wipe out everyone in the NW of England and the whole of
Ireland if it exploded, so the Irish would like it shut down.
http://www.visitcumbria.com/wc/svc.htm

There are/ were a number of people running their diesel cars on old cooking
oil but the government has now made that illegal because they can not get
the 400% tax they rake in over here.
We also have hydro-electric http://www.darvill.clara.net/altenerg/pumped.htm
but it is only a storage device not a power station as we don't have the
great lakes you have in the USA.

Nigel.



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