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Re: living out of a van

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Posted by nicksanspam on December 24, 2003, 4:36 pm  <> wrote:

Systeme D, in a suitcase, with the help of the aforementioned confederate.
("Yes, I told George he could camp on the roof.") An 8'widex12'longx8'tall
paraboloid structure with 2 309 ft^2 layers of 6 mil poly film might weigh
2x309x0.027 = 16.7 pounds.

A 90 mph wind might push with 12x8x20.7 = 1987 pounds of force, so we need
about 31 ft^3 of water inside to resist sliding, with a unity coefficient
of friction.

NREL says 610 Btu/ft^2 of sun falls on the ground and 980 falls on a south
wall on an average 31.5 F January day in NYC. A cubic foot of water inside
concentric poly film ducts (the outer one filled with air for better room
temp control) would receive about 0.9^4(610+980) = 1043 Btu of sun on an
average day. At water temp T, it would lose about 24h(T-65)4ft^2/R1, making
T = 130 F on an average day. Surrounded by 6" R20 foam, the structure would
lose about 5x24h(65-31.5)309ft^2/R20 = 62K Btu over 5 cloudy days, which
might come from 62K/(130-70) = 1033 pounds of water cooling from 130 to 70 F.


Posted by on December 24, 2003, 4:39 pm
On 24 Dec 2003 11:36:59 -0500, nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

if you put your mind to profitable uses you could afford a place to

Because of the current email spam attacks my email account is not included,
reply via the newsgroups or ask for a valid email address.

Posted by Anthony Matonak on December 24, 2003, 8:31 pm
 nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

It seems to me that this is a "good answer to the wrong question" kind
of design. There are a number of likely incorrect assumptions involved
in the very problem this design is trying to provide an answer to. Then
the design itself seems to lack the features which would most seem to
be needed for this.

For instance, just because a roof is unoccupied does not make it unused.
Access to the roof is probably restricted to only a few people, not
the residents or tenants, for maintenance reasons and to discourage
illegal activities. Reporting of rooftop camping or broken/replaced
locks are likely to be done by maintenance staff or one of the daily
police helicopter flyovers. Once found out, it's likely that the
structure would be destroyed and not allowed to "move on". A tent does
not need to be heated, people do. People can live well enough with
just the proper clothing and sleeping gear. A rooftop tent is likely
better made with typical tent material than plastic film. Even if you
had to go home-made then it's likely some good fabric can be found
as inexpensively as greenhouse film and painting it to blend into the
rooftop would make it less likely to be noticed from the air.

All in all, I'd say it's probably easier to find a vacant building
or unoccupied space and simply move in than it would be to camp on
a roof.


Posted by nicksanspam on December 24, 2003, 9:34 pm

I know of one 5 story 25 unit co-op in Brooklyn with unfettered roof access
to every owner. The roof has a number of old pipe racks for clothes drying.

No locks, and in several years, I never saw a helicopter fly over.

A lawyer with a penchant for homeless and squatter's rights
might drag this on for years.

...5 cents/ft^2, in rolls up to 40' wide?

Stealth housing. Good idea.


Posted by Anthony Matonak on December 25, 2003, 4:41 am
 nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

 > No locks, and in several years, I never saw a helicopter fly over.

I guess NYC is different than Los Angeles. Must have a lot fewer people
jumping off buildings or something.

In any case, unfettered access to owners isn't the same as public
access and it means that it's likely that the roof is visited by one
or more of these owners often. I would doubt that you could erect a
structure there without it coming to their notice almost immediately.

Besides, just because you don't see a helicopter doesn't mean that
it's not there.

: One of the most important characteristics of this helicopter model is
: how quiet it is. It uses state-of-the-art technology such as modified
: main rotor tips and a fenestron tail rotor to become the quietest
: helicopter in its class. While on routine patrol, the helicopter would
: operate at about 1,200 feet above ground level and would barely be
: noticeable.

This goes into some detail about the NYPD Aviation Unit.

They might or they might not. I would see it as a pretty open and
shut case but I've seen some pretty insane things come out of our
legal system lately. Unless you find a lawyer willing work for
nothing, you are probably talking about more money than the rent
would have been. Meanwhile, I wouldn't bet my health or my housing
on the goodwill of one or more ticked off NYC property owners or

I'm no expert in these things but a quick google search found me...

It seems most of this is on rolls 60" wide (5') and priced by the
yard so 5 cents/ft^2 would run 75 cents/yard. I see a number of
selections available there for this price or less. I'm not familiar
with the fabrics but it's likely one or more of these would be
good enough for a tent. No doubt other sources, some in NYC itself,
could be found.

It just seems to me that plastic film must have some kind of
serious drawback for being used as a tent material or else it
would be used for that purpose already.


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