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Posted by Drew Cutter on September 11, 2005, 10:16 am
 
I understand that dehumidifiers will be hard to come by because of
Katrina. Demand for these have gone way up.

Ed Earl Ross wrote:


Posted by Steve Spence on September 11, 2005, 1:02 pm
 
Drew Cutter wrote:

I've got one I'll let go fairly cheap .....


--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Posted by nicksanspam on September 12, 2005, 10:08 am
 Drew Cutter wrote:


Solar-assisted fans might work faster with less electrical energy.
NREL says 1550 Btu/ft^2 of sun falls on the ground on an average
78.1 F September day in New Orleans, with an 86.1 daily max and
humidity ratio wa = 0.0158 pounds of water per pound of dry air.

With 8 hours of sun and an average 82 F daytime temp, a $00 16'x16'
plastic film greenhouse with 1x3 bows and a $0 Lasko 16" 90 W window
fan could collect 0.9x1550x256ft^2/8h = 44.6K Btu/h, heating 2470 cfm
of 82 F air to 82+44.6K/2470 = 100 F.

With temp T and vapor pressure Pi and w in a house with an 800 Btu/h-F
conductance, we could remove P = 60x2470x0.075(w-0.0158) = 11115w-176
pounds of water per hour. If (100-T)2470 = (T-82)(2470+800)+1000P, ie
247-2.47T = 3.27T-268-P, P = 5.74T - 515 = 11115w-176, so T = 120.4-1936w.
Pi = e^(17.863-9621/(460+T)) "Hg and w = 0.62198/(29.921/Pi-1) makes
T = 120.4-1204/(29.921/Pi-1), ie Pi = 29.921((120.4-T)/(1324-T)), so
T = 9621/(14.46-ln((120.4-T)/(1324-T)))-460. Plugging in T = 80 F on
the right makes T = 74 on the left. Repeating makes T = ... 78.79.

20 TD=(78.1+86.6)/2'average daytime temp (F)
30 WA=.0158'outdoor humidity ratio
40 CFM$0'fan airflow (cfm)
45 SUNPOWER=.9*256*1550/8'solar heat (Btu/h)
50 TG=TD+SUNPOWER/CFM'greenhouse temp (F)
60 GH0'house conductance (Btu/h-F)
70 T'initial house temp est (F)
80 TERM1.863-LOG(29.921)
90 TERM2=(2*CFM+GH)/1000
100 TERM3`*CFM*.075
105 TERM4=(CFM*TG+TD*(CFM+GH))/1000
110 T1=(TERM4+TERM3*WA)/TERM2
120 T2=T1+TERM3*.62198/TERM2
130 TH21/(TERM1-LOG((T1-T)/(T2-T)))-460
140 IF ABS(T-TH)>.01 THEN T=TH:GOTO 130
150 PI=EXP(17.863-9621/(460+T))
160 WI=.62198/(29.921/PI-1)
170 P=4.5*CFM*(WI-WA)
180 PRINT T,PI,WI,P

Indoor        Vapor         Humidity           Pounds
temp          pressure      ratio              per hour

78.79059      1.006362      2.164776E-02       64.99785   September
71.0885       .7767595      1.657717E-02       57.5442    October

So it looks like we can remove about 8 gallons per hour or 64 gallons
per day this way in September, and 57 in October, with 1370 Btu/ft^2
of sun and a 69.1 average and 79.4 max and wa = 0.0114.

Nick


Posted by gfretwell on September 13, 2005, 2:12 am
 On 12 Sep 2005 06:08:24 -0400, nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:


Yeah it's 78 and shitty, I want to make it 4 degrees hotter to raise
the dew point.

Posted by nicksanspam on September 15, 2005, 8:57 am
 
A 32'x32' greenhouse with a larger fan might double this:
 
20 DATA 78.1,86.6,0.0158,1550
30 DATA 69.1,79.4,0.0114,1370
40 CFM560'fan airflow (cfm)
50 L2:W2'greenhouse length and width (feet)
60 GH0'house conductance (Btu/h-F)
70 FOR MONTH = 1 TO 2'September and October in New Orleans
80 READ TAVG,TMAX,WA,HSUN'Tavg, Tmax, humidity ratio, sun on ground
90 TD=(TAVG+TMAX)/2'average daytime temp (F)
100 SUNPOWER=.9*L*W*HSUN/8'sun power (Btu/h)
110 TG=TD+SUNPOWER/CFM'greenhouse temp (F)
120 T'initial house temp est (F)
130 TERM1.863-LOG(29.921)
140 TERM2=(2*CFM+GH)/1000
150 TERM3`*CFM*.075
160 TERM4=(CFM*TG+TD*(CFM+GH))/1000
170 T1=(TERM4+TERM3*WA)/TERM2
180 T2=T1+TERM3*.62198/TERM2
190 TH21/(TERM1-LOG((T1-T)/(T2-T)))-460
200 IF ABS(T-TH)>.01 THEN T=TH:GOTO 190
210 PI=EXP(17.863-9621/(460+T))
220 WI=.62198/(29.921/PI-1)
230 P=4.5*CFM*(WI-WA)
240 PRINT TG,T,WI,P
250 NEXT MONTH

Greenhouse    Indoor        Humidity           Pounds
temp (F)      temp (F)      ratio              per hour
 
132.5073      84.19831      2.602676E-02       163.8327    September
118.5826      76.60541      2.008044E-02       139.0606    October

Greenhouse polyethyelene film comes in 32'x100' rolls with a 4-year
guarantee. It costs about 5 cents/ft^2. A lot of it's made in Texas.
To minimize the greenhouse heat loss, we might put black plastic on
the ground and hang a layer of shadecloth above, with the fan above
that, pushing outdoor air into the greenhouse which warms as it passes
down through the shadecloth and flows into the lower house windows.

Nick


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