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Posted by feklar on September 13, 2003, 9:34 pm
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:05:55 GMT, feklar@rock.com (feklar) wrote:

In late 1985 / early 1986, I acquired a small ultrasonic setup.  I
found by freak accident that te ultrasonic transducer would increase
the size of the flame from a BIC lighter.

So I figured out what the underlying principle had to be, and set an
idea off to NASA about how ultrasound might be used to increase rocket
thrust by causing more complete combustion higher up inside the rocket

Ultrasound is not only alternaing high pressure / low pressure, it is
alternating compresson / rarefaction.  Blow up a balloon, hold it
closed without tying it, and draw evenly spaced dots all over it with
a magic marker.  When the balloon is deflated, all the dots will move
closer together (compression) and when reinflated, all the dots will
move away from one another (rarefaction).

This is what ultrasound does to atoms and molecules as it travels
through an area.  The compression or positive phase of the sound wave
moves all the atoms and molecules in that area closer together, and
traveling right behind it at the speed of sound is the rarefaction or
negative phase of the sond wave.

In the application of increasing rocket thrust, the compression phase
is responsible for the increase in the combustion rate.  It moves the
O2 and H2 molecules closer together physically thereby greatly
increasing the chances that two of the molecules will come close
enough physically to begin to react.  Once the reactoin begins, it is
a higher order energy reaction than the rarefaction phase of the sound
wave.  So when the rarefaction phase immediately follows the
compression phase into the area, all it can do is to rarefy the new
H2O and H2 molecules around, it is not powerful enough to stop the
molecular reactions themselves.

For the application of increasing steam production and (hopefully)
overcoming latent heat of vaporization, the rarefaction phase of the
wave would be the operator, rather than the compression phase is in
the rocket thrust application.

Once the molecules are rarefied at the surface and evaporate, they
already have the momentum and velocity to escape, and the compression
form of the wave should not be able to reverse this.  However, this
effect would be limited only to the surface of the water, so a very
large and very shallow water tray or tank would have to be used.

The question is whether more power would be used powering the
ultrasound than was gained by the steam.  In the rocket thrust
example, more power is gained than spent.

Some strange aspect of physics must be responsible where a small
amount of mechanical motion at the molecualr level can change the
underlying physical proerties of the tiny part of the universe being
dealt with.  This actually makes sense if you consider the border of
the electromagnetic spectrum where sound and radio frequencies meet.
That frequency of ultrasound lies in the overlap region.

You are in a spaceship attempting to demonstrate the fact that the
speed of light cannot be changed.  You are traveling at a quarter of
the speed of light.  You aim a red laser beam  stright out the side of
the ship, perpendicular to the vector of your travel.  If you slowly
rotate the laser towards the front of the ship, the beam will turn
orange, then yellow, then green, then blue, then violet, then go on
off into the x-rays and gamma ray parts of the spectrum.  Because you
cannot change the speed of light.  Attempting to do so only adds
additional energy to the light, and the frequency (an exact measure of
the energy content) is increased isntead.

But what happens if you reset it back to its original perpendicular
position and decide to rotate it back towards the back of the ship?
The beam turns infrared, then into a microwave, then into a radio
frequency, and then what?  After it gets to where it must turn into a
sound wave, the speed of light is lost.  Where does all that extra
energy go?  I think I am trying to say that sound by its very nature
contains inherently more mechanical energy and far less
electromagnetic energy than radio frequencies or above, and there are
sneaky ways to take advantage of this and 'steal' some of it.

I know it would seem to appear that you can only get as much energy
out of it as you out into it, but I'm not certain that this is
actually the case.  If this were true, then ultrasound wouldn't be
able to make a rocket produce far more power than the energy used to
create the sound wave, but it does.  It shouldn't be able to increase
the combustion rate of a lighter or torch, but it does.  I was able to
get roughly a 30 percent increase in the size of a medium flame from a
BIC lighter, and my output power was less than 2 watts.  While I can't
give you numbers, I know that that the extra 30 percent of heat from
the flame had to be valued at far more than 2 watts.

I would love to understand the exact nature of that principle, but it
escapes me.  I know I'm on the right track with concentrating on the
border region between sound and radio and where the extra energy goes
(or is, in sound), but where it goes from there I can't figure out.

The Amazing and Mysterious Powers of Mexican Females.

Chapter 1: Levitation and Summoning.

Posted by feklar on September 15, 2003, 5:39 am

You probably want to read this whole post before replying.

OK, after some thinking and looking around, I may have found a way
around that inconvenient pain in the butt.

Why not intentionally cause BLEVEs?  Get the water up to 212 degrees,
let it boil a little to build up a little pressure.

Using the example proposed in the OP, modify it a tad so that only the
end of the pipe is the boiling chamber.  Have a piston locked in place
inside the pipe near the end of the pipe, creating a boiling chamber a
few inches or a foot long, and boil the water with the heating
elements there.  Extend the pipe away from the greenhouse about 400
feet.  Use sections of pipe to make that long pipe.

Once the water charge is starting to boil, and the pressure starts
building up a little in the chamber, release the lock on the piston.
The pressure should send it shooting away from the end of the pipe,
and that will reduce the pressure in the boiling water area, and with
any luck would cause a BLEVE

But a controlled BLEVE, that keeps the piston accelerating down the
length of the pipe.  The total volume of the water would increase 1900
times as over as steam volume, with great violence, and would
accelerate the piston down the inside of the pipe with considerable
force.  The air inside the pipe on the other side of the piston would
be compressed.  Part of that pressure could drive a turbine directly,
while the rest of it was fed into an air pressure storage tank, and
the valve to the tank would close when the piston reached the other
(far) end of the pipe.  The air in the tank would continue to drive
the turbine until the excess pressure there was dissapated.

There are a slew of other details that would have to be attended to,
like returning the piston (the piston would have to have a valve and a
hole running through so that with the valve opened, it could be
returned without compressing the air in the pipe), or having a timing
mechanism, using a steam chamber at both ends of the pipe, alternating
the position of the piston from end to end.  Multiple pipes per
greenhouse / tank.  The details of the piston lock mechanism.  The
turbine would have to be fed from multiple pistons and air tanks and a
timing mechanism to halfway synchronize things is required, and the
turbine would have to have a good sized flywheel.  There are other

There are other approaches, like using magnetic pistons and lining the
outside of the pipe with windings.  Or using curved pipe, with the
curve having a large diameter, and having a mated rotational disk
platform of the same diameter having a magnetic drive underneath it on
top of the pipe to cause it to rotate in the direction the piston is
flying towards, using multiple BLEVE chamber sources and pistons.

Some interesting possibilities.

But it isn't worth pursuing any further if the release of the piston
would not be enough to cause a BLEVE.

How can it be determined whether it would or not?  And if it would,
whether the pipe can be made strong enough to stand up to that much
force remains to be determined.

There must be ways to take advantage of BLEVEs.  I've never heard of
anyone trying that, but the considerable amount of explosive force
would surely be worthy of attempting to harness.

Strange that I can't find any posts or sites of anyone attempting to
try that.

Posted by feklar on September 17, 2003, 4:51 am
 Got you with that one, didn't I?  Now that idea kicks some butt.

On 14 Sep 2003 22:39:26 -0700, feklar@rock.com (feklar) wrote:

The Amazing and Mysterious Powers of Mexican Females.

Chapter 1: Levitation and Summoning.

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