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Posted by Solar Flare on November 25, 2006, 5:45 pm
 
Hogwash. Our scientific system is based on these principles.

With that approach nobody can prove that 2 plus 2 equals 4, either.

Certain laws or rules are set down as standards and never provable.
The rest of science is built on these "standards" and proven aginst
them as supporting or not.



Posted by Derek Broughton on November 27, 2006, 1:30 am
 
Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:


It is sufficient to point out that Newton's Laws of motion are _still_ true.
His _theories_ didn't adequately answer all the problems presented in a
relativistic universe, but the Laws have not been falsified.
--
derek

Posted by Steve O'Hara-Smith on November 27, 2006, 7:17 am
 On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:30:06 -0400


    They have been falsified, in this rather precise sense. The
universe does not behave as predicted by Newton's laws of motion.

    The relativistic theories do provide a better match to the
behaviour of the universe than Newton's laws, however both fail badly when
modelling the behaviour of the universe on very small scales where only
quantum mechanics gives answers that correspond closely to reality.

    it seems to be that you are thinking that I meant falsified to
imply some logical inconsistency rather than a failure to model the
universe accurately.

    I stand by what I said, and will go further to point out that the
second law of thermodynamics is one of the very few scientific theories
with no known falsifications. Another one is that the universe is logically
consistent - it might not be. I would be very surprised if either of these
were to be falsified but I do not make the mistake of considering it
impossible.

--
C:>WIN                                      |   Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins.                | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    licences available see
                                            |    http://www.sohara.org/

Posted by Derek Broughton on November 27, 2006, 1:48 pm
 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:


1st Law: "an object at rest tends to stay at rest ..." - still true
2nd Law:  F = ma - OK, that one may be a bit iffy.  I confess I don't know
if it actually collapses at relativistic speeds.  Wikipedia suggests that
the law - as he wrote it - does not: "At speeds comparable to the speed of
light, the second law holds in the original form F = dp / dt".
3rd Law: "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" - also
still true.


Don't be insulting.  It's entirely reasonable to assume that people you
argue with are smart enough to be able to use the same terms you do.
Otherwise you're just showing off.
--
derek

Posted by Steve O'Hara-Smith on November 27, 2006, 9:31 pm
 On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:48:04 -0400


    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is invoked in areas where this
one fails.


    This one is falsified - and is grossly out when dealing with speeds
approaching that of light, it is wrong at any speed although the error may
be too small to measure at low speeds.


    Yes that is still usable, mainly because of careful definition of p
and t.


    Hmm I think that one still stands.


    I did not intend to be - my apologies for any assumed insult.


    I was considering the possibility that you were using them in
different ways, not that you were unable to use them.

    We have wandered a long way off my original point, which was that
it took a very long time for the cracks in Newton's work to show but the
cracks are indeed there. Any theory may turn out to be false, even the
sacred second law of thermodynamics but if it is the cracks are very hard
to find.

--
C:>WIN                                      |   Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins.                | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    licences available see
                                            |    http://www.sohara.org/

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