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Posted by Andy Hall on October 24, 2007, 9:27 pm
 


way.

The objective should be quality and not shipping in bulk for industrial
processing.


You described it very well.



Posted by Doctor Drivel on October 24, 2007, 9:42 pm
 


Matt they can bottle it in California or in Manchester.  It is more energy
efficient to bottle it in Manchester. The quality stays the same.  You don't
know about wine Matt.


Posted by Andy Hall on October 25, 2007, 7:24 am
 
In the case of California white wines (but not some reds) that is
probably true.



It may be, but that isn't the point except in the case of the bulk products



That's probably true in the case of the products you describe.    
Garages are starting to sell it to go in washer bottles at this time of
year.

 


Posted by Doctor Drivel on October 24, 2007, 11:17 am
 


There is only two, the Seven and the Mersey. The Seven one is massive making
a bridge from  beyond Cardiff to Somerset, locking in Bristol, Avonmouth and
Cardiff .

There was talk of making a barrage across a part of Liverpool Bay, locking
in the Dee and the Mersey estuaries. I think this will not come about, while
a barrage at the Mersey narrows would a relatively cheap undertaking.


3rd highest tidal range in the world.


Not deep enough and much wildlife use the Dee as it basically a sandbank
these days.


The Mersey has the 4th highest tidal range in the world.  Large sea locks
can be incorporated in the barrage. The large Seaforth container terminal
may have locks into it on the sea side of the barrage.  Large Post-Panamax
container ships could berth on the barrage, either side of it.  The large
container ships rest on the river bed at low tide, as do the oil tankers at
Tranmere on the Mersey river.

Locks in the barrage may mean smaller ships may come and  go at any time. In
the locks and up into the dammed-in river.  This means access to the
Manchester Ship Canal taking ships 45 miles from sea is 24/7.  Ships could
also use berths on the river walls which previously they could not because
of the 32 foot tidal range.

The strong tides take in sand into the Mersey estuary making dredging
essential at some points.  A dredged channel is maintained to the Manchester
Ship Canal locks at Eastham on the Wirral side.  Once the river is dammed
in, the sand can be removed and the river will remain deep making it more
appealing for shipping and larger ships, and hold more water, which is more
energy to produce more electricity.

Also John Lennon airport is on the river banks. At low tide sand is visible.
Once the river is dammed in, a dock/wharf setup can be built meshing in with
the new air cargo port that is being built there. A direct combined cargo
air/sea port.  The cargo airport will be linked to Liverpool Seaforth
container terminal at the river mouth by rail links.  Garston Docks are
right next to the airport, but the owners of the airport do own them. They
own the airport and the massive container terminal at Seaforth.

The pros far outweigh the cons.

Similar with the Seven. But the Severn has far more environmental issues
than the Mersey, as far more river is being dammed in.  The proposed Seven
barrage is huge.  Migrating birds which use the Mersey, can just use the
River Dee, which is virtually next door.

Expect to see the Mersey barrage built first if it comes about, as it will
be smaller across the river narrows.


Don't buy their goods. But that will not happen. Shanghai is twinned with
Liverpool and St Petersburg. Shanghai business pumped about 12 billion into
St Petersburg. Liverpool is strengthening bonds with Shanghai with a big
sell headed by Lehey, the Tesco wizz kid, and it appears they will use the
city and port as a gateway into the UK/Western Europe.  So economics will
prevent pressure being put on the Chinese.  Only the UN and the various
international climate lobbies can make an impact on China and India.


Posted by Doctor Drivel on October 24, 2007, 10:42 am
 

The environmental problems have been taken into account.


The tides are highly predicatable.


Good idea.


Research is still ongoing on that point.

A Google finds lots. Found this below.  A barrage also gives a free bridge
for road and rail, and maybe leisure facilities on it too, like tall towers
and restaurants on the top, etc.

Power from the Mersey in 2020
Oct 9 2007 by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

PLANS to build a tidal barrage on the River Mersey are expected to be lodged
by Mersey Docks and Harbour Company owners Peel Holdings by 2010, it was
revealed last night.

The giant generator would then produce enough power to meet the demands of
thousands of homes by 2020.

The announcement comes after an influential government advisory team
yesterday named the Mersey as a new source of energy potential to meet
growing 21st- century electricity needs.

The national report by the Government's independent adviser, the Sustainable
Development Commission, highlighted the potential for power generation from
the Mersey Estuary.

Although focused mainly on suggestions to build a barrage across the River
Severn, the report also raised the prospect of the Mersey and five other
prime locations in the UK being suitable for tidal energy generation.

The report, Turning the Tide - Tidal Power in the UK, concludes there is
"real enthusiasm for harnessing the tidal resource in the Mersey, and a
consortium of interests that might be willing to take this forward."

The report is being seen as a boost for a Mersey barrage initiative. It
follows a separate study, called Power from the Mersey, published earlier
this year by Peel Environmental and the Northwest Regional Development
Agency, in association with the Mersey Basin Campaign.

The new commission report includes a series of recommendations to the
Government on how to develop the country's tidal resource and emerging tidal
technologies, to provide secure, low carbon electricity for the long term.

It calculates that a barrage in the Severn Estuary could supply 4.4% of UK
electricity supply.

SDC chairman Jonathon Porritt said the UK could get at least 10% of its
electricity from tidal power.

In respect of the potential for power generation in the Mersey, the SDC
report notes: "Our analysis has focused on the issue of a Severn barrage,
but we have also looked at the extensive resource outside the Severn
Estuary, including the well-developed proposals for the Mersey Estuary.

"There is now renewed interest as a result of a recent study commissioned by
Peel Environmental in association with the NWDA and the Mersey Basin
Campaign."

Mr Porritt said: "The UK's unique tidal resources deserve particular
consideration, and a Mersey scheme should be looked into carefully."

Last night, Peter Nears, strategic planning director for Mersey Docks and
Harbour Company owners, Peel Holdings, welcomed the report.

He revealed: "We shall be moving Power from the Mersey forward into a Phase
2 study shortly and we will include the recommendations of the SDC on the
principles of sustainable development in the brief.

"We hope this will result in a planning application by 2010, and a scheme
delivering renewable power by 2020."


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