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Posted by David Hansen on October 15, 2007, 7:52 am
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:37:52 +0100 someone who may be Eeyore

The committee awarded the prize to the IPCC and Mr Gore for their
work in raising knowledge of the issue. Even those who believe the
science is all junk should be grown up enough to accept that they
have both raised knowledge of the issue.

  David Hansen, Edinburgh
 I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me

Posted by Eeyore on October 15, 2007, 8:55 am

David Hansen wrote:

Hopefully enough that some real science and truth (rather than spin) might enter
equation !


Posted by Peter Parry on October 15, 2007, 9:51 am
 On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:52:16 +0100, David Hansen

In Gores case he may have raised awareness but certainly not
knowledge.  Science, unlike politics, is all about learning.
Conclusions and suppositions are often superseded by new findings.
This is exactly why this glossy bit of polemic has no place in
schools other than in politics lessons.  Children should be taught to
question based on facts, not to accept spoon feed misinformation from
celebrities.  They should learn that science is about continually
finding things out and in doing so it will always create new areas of
uncertainty as well as resolving problems.

Real learning is of course an anathema to a government intent on
promoting superstition and installing increasing numbers of "faith"
schools so it isn't surprising that their ministers probably believe
Gores green propaganda is science, but it isn't and shouldn't go
unchallenged when presented as being so.

Peter Parry.  

Posted by Sundug on October 17, 2007, 1:13 pm

So, the top climate scientists are all wrong, the Un is wrong, Al Gore
is wrong, but you are right? I don`t think so.
Those who believe the anti Gore propaganda are dupes of big business-

The school governor who challenged the screening of Al Gore's climate
change documentary in secondary schools was funded by a Scottish
quarrying magnate who established a controversial lobbying group to
attack environmentalists' claims about global warming.
Stewart Dimmock's high-profile fight to ban the film being shown in
schools was depicted as a David and Goliath battle, with the Kent
school governor taking on the state by arguing that the government was
'brainwashing' pupils

A High Court ruling last week that the Oscar-winning documentary would
have to be screened with guidance notes to balance its claims was
welcomed by climate-change sceptics.

The Observer has established that Dimmock's case was supported by a
powerful network of business interests with close links to the fuel
and mining lobbies. He was also supported by a Conservative councillor
in Hampshire, Derek Tipp.

Dimmock credited the little-known New Party with supporting him in the
test case but did not elaborate on its involvement. The obscure
Scotland-based party calls itself 'centre right' and campaigns for
lower taxes and expanding nuclear power.

Records filed at the Electoral Commission show the New Party has
received nearly all of its money - almost 1m between 2004 and 2006 -
from Cloburn Quarry Limited, based in Lanarkshire.

The company's owner and chairman of the New Party, Robert Durward, is
a long-time critic of environmentalists. With Mark Adams, a former
private secretary to Tony Blair, he set up the Scientific Alliance, a
not-for-profit body comprising scientists and non-scientists, which
aims to challenge many of the claims about global warming.

The alliance issued a press release welcoming last week's court ruling
and helped publicise Dimmock's case on its website. It also advised
Channel 4 on the Great Global Warming Swindle, a controversial
documentary screened earlier this year that attempted to challenge
claims made about climate change.

In 2004 the alliance co-authored a report with the George C Marshall
Institute, a US body funded by Exxon Mobil, that attacked climate
change claims. 'Climate change science has fallen victim to heated
political and media rhetoric ... the result is extensive
misunderstanding,' the report's authors said.

Martin Livermore, director of the alliance, confirmed Durward
continued to support its work. 'He provides funds with other members,'
Livermore said.

In the Nineties, Durward established the British Aggregates
Association to campaign against a tax on sand, gravel and rock
extracted from quarries. Durward does not talk to the media and calls
to the association requesting an interview were not returned last
week. However, he has written letters to newspapers setting out his
personal philosophy. One letter claimed: 'It is time for Tony Blair to
try the "fourth way", declare martial law and let the army sort out
our schools, hospitals and roads.'

He later clarified his comments saying he was merely pointing out that
the army had done a 'fantastic job' in dealing with the foot and mouth
crisis. He has also asked whether there has been a 'witch-hunt against
drunk drivers'.

Dimmock also received support from a new organisation,
Straightteaching.com, which calls for politics to be left out of the
classroom. The organisation, which established an online payment
system for people to make contributions to Dimmock's campaign, was set
up by Tipp and several others. Its website was registered last month
to an anonymous Arizona-based internet company.

Tipp, who is described on the website as having been a science teacher
in the Seventies and Eighties, declines to talk about who else is
backing it. 'There are other people involved but I don't think they
want to be revealed,' he said.

He said he thought his organisation could bring more cases against the
government. 'There are a lot of people who feel the climate change
debate is being hyped up,' Tipp said. 'To try to scare people into
believing the end is nigh is not helpful. We've been contacted by
other teachers who raised concerns. There's a lot of interest,
especially from people in the US.'

Posted by Eeyore on October 17, 2007, 1:39 pm

Sundug wrote:

No, actually some top climate scientists think AGW is bull.

It normally is. No surprise there. The UN has a consistent track record of

Al Gore's not a scientist last time I checked but merely a worthless scheming
POLITICIAN. Are you seriously saying he should be believed about AGW when he
the idea of a small 'carbon footprint' for himself ? It's a case of "do what I
with Gore, not "do what I do".

But you're a gullible IDIOT.


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