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heat transfer plates

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Posted by <farview on December 8, 2003, 4:54 am
 
I'm working on radiant floor heat design for my garage with studio above.
If I design a system incorporating heat transfer plates with 1/2" pex on 8"
centers for the suspended floor, I can keep my input water temperature low
and within 10 degrees of the water temp used by the garage slab on grade.
The single water temp for both zones greatly simplifies the control and
piping strategy and allows better use of solar water heating.  The problem
is the cost of the heat transfer plates.  All the products I find a
ridiculously expensive for what they are and I'm looking for a home-brew
solution.

  Warmboard uses a 22 gauge (.025") aluminum formed to accept 1/2" pex and
bonded to 1.125" subfloor plywood.  Rehau and Wirsbo have extruded plates
and above subfloor applications like Quik-Trak.  All this stuff ends up
costing so much dough that builders often opt not to use them and instead
suspend the tubing between joist spaces and consequently running much hotter
water to get the heat output required. This is inefficient and wasteful.

Question is - is there an easy home-brew method to making good quality
plates (i.e. - not sloppy).  High velocity electromagnetic forming would be
cool but it's beyond the scope of my means.  4 foot lengths of 22 gauge
aluminum wouldn't require a large force to press a 1/2" groove into I don't
think, but then I don't know about sheet metal forming and fabrication
techniques.  Anybody seen good homemade plates and know how it was done??

thanks,
chuck



Posted by Duane C. Johnson on December 8, 2003, 11:48 am
 
Hi chuck;

farview@earthlink.net wrote:
 

J. Ersing sent me this description for a solar collector.
The method works just as well as a heat spreader. See:
http://www.redrok.com/misc1.htm#wrappingjig


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Posted by Nick Pine on December 8, 2003, 2:01 pm
 

I wonder what you mean by "suspended floor."


Which is also structural...


Sure. You might fill the space below the floor with warm air from below.
With a few adjustable holes in the floor. You might use $/ft 5 Btu/h-F-foot
fin tubes near the bottom of a garage floor to ceiling closet that speeds up
the air moving past them.
 

I like J. Ersing's wrapping jig on Duane's web site. I suppose unfolding the
fins is simple. Seems to me the unfolded plate can't be wider than 1' for
reasonable fin efficiency using ripped $0 2'x100' rolls of brown-on-white
Al coil from Home Depot. To avoid the ripping, you might make a version with
two pipes in a double jig. For a sloppier version with more thermal storage,
you might put a layer of poly film  over the floor joists, then lay 30" poly
film duct over that, with the floor above that, and circulate warm water
through the duct.

Nick


Posted by John on December 9, 2003, 3:33 pm
 Chuck,
What you want is called a  bead roller.  There are manual versions.  Check
Harbor Freight or E-Bay.  I would guess about 60.00.  You could also contact
a local sheet metal shop and tell them  "Hey, I have 100 each sheets of AL,
22 guage, 8 inches wide by four foot long.  I want a 1/2 inch half round
bead in the center of each of them"  How much?

You could cut all the metal at home from the Home Depot or lowes, provide
stock and pay a per foot bead rolling charge.  Probably cheaper than paying
3 or 4 dollars each for a prefab.

Here is a link to mandrels if you are creative enough to make your own drive
system.

http://www.momscarparts.com/?c=Metal_Shop&s=Forming

John

Nick - Appreciate the comment on this jig.  The jig worked well, the system
however was not very efficient.





Posted by Duane C. Johnson on December 9, 2003, 11:54 pm
 Hi John;



Cool tool.
Although its a little more than that.
The BEAD ROLL DIES set are $4.99 See:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber@624
To be used with Motorized Fabrication Machine, Item 40614.
Harbor Freight discontinued the item.

I wonder how hard it would be to make one of these.
Or buy the dies and mount in a lathe.


$4.19 + $06.88

And others:
http://www.fournierenterprises.com/equipment.htm
http://www.dtsgraphics.com/proformer/BRoller/BeadRoller.htm
http://www.toolsplus1.com/broller.htm
 

    Home of the $5 Solar Tracker      Receiver
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  Powered by             \  \     \        //|
 Thermonuclear   Solar Energy from the Sun / |
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Duane C. Johnson   Designer  \  \  /  \ /    |
1825 Florence St  Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota    === \   / \    |
USA      55110-3364                ===   \   |
(651)426-4766        use Courier New Font \  |
redrok@redrok.com     (my email: address)  \ |
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