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?'s on Nick's R-54 Glazed trombe wall

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Posted by John on August 13, 2006, 11:42 pm
 
I have an area approx 100 sq ft that I will be glazing ala Nick Pines
glazed trombe wall at builditsolar.com.  I would like AST's comments
on the following before I start cutting and mounting the framing.

1. Distance from the wall to the glazing in Nicks is one inch
    Is there an optimal distance or minimum / maximum ?

2. Do I need to be concerned with condensation within the area?
    If so, is there a scheme to addressing that or is it irrelevant?

Thanks
John



Posted by Gary on August 14, 2006, 7:05 pm
 
John wrote:

Hi John,

I don't think the spacing is very critical.  I think the 1 inch Nick used is
fine, and it makes the frame easy to build.  See note below.

Unless you get condensation on the wall now, I don't see why condensation would
be a problem.  During the day, the wall will run much warmer under the glazing
-- seems like that should get rid of any condensation.  At night, I suppose you
might get some condensation on the back of the glazing, since it will run cold.
  Maybe leave some weep holes in the bottom of the frame?  You could probably
have quite a bit of open area in the bottom (horizontal) frame member without
effecting performance much.

I've been looking around for actual measured efficiencies for Trombe walls, and
the only two I have found have been low -- about 10% to 15%.  One of these was
the Zion Park Visitor Center -- you can Google for the full report.  I think the
beauty of Nick's wall warmer/Trombe Wall scheme is that its so simple and cheap
-- even if efficiency is low, its cheap heat.

Maybe Nick has some thoughts on this?

------------
My own tentative conclusion is that going to a lot of work (e.g. pouring
concrete etc.) to build a Trombe wall is not worth the effort, because the
efficiency is so low??  Better to use direct gain with storage in the floor or
walls, or a collector with some form of storage (e.g. water containers) inside
the heated room??

-----------
Here is a somewhat similar scheme for non-massive, thin, highly conductive
walls.  The little test panel I built has the glazing spaced only about 5/16ths
inch off the wall, and it seems to still function well to heat the underlying
wall.
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/LowTechCol/LowTechCollectorR1.pdf


Gary

--


Gary

www.BuildItSolar.com
gary@BuildItSolar.com
"Build It Yourself" Solar Projects









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Posted by John on August 14, 2006, 8:07 pm
 
: John wrote:
: > I have an area approx 100 sq ft that I will be glazing ala Nick Pines
: > glazed trombe wall at builditsolar.com.  I would like AST's comments
: > on the following before I start cutting and mounting the framing.
: >
: > 1. Distance from the wall to the glazing in Nicks is one inch
: >     Is there an optimal distance or minimum / maximum ?
: >
: > 2. Do I need to be concerned with condensation within the area?
: >     If so, is there a scheme to addressing that or is it irrelevant?
: >
: > Thanks
: > John
: >
: >
:
: Hi John,
:
: I don't think the spacing is very critical.  I think the 1 inch Nick used
is
: fine, and it makes the frame easy to build.  See note below.
:
: Unless you get condensation on the wall now, I don't see why condensation
would
: be a problem.  During the day, the wall will run much warmer under the
glazing
: -- seems like that should get rid of any condensation.  At night, I
suppose you
: might get some condensation on the back of the glazing, since it will run
cold.
:   Maybe leave some weep holes in the bottom of the frame?  You could
probably
: have quite a bit of open area in the bottom (horizontal) frame member
without
: effecting performance much.
:
: I've been looking around for actual measured efficiencies for Trombe
walls, and
: the only two I have found have been low -- about 10% to 15%.  One of these
was
: the Zion Park Visitor Center -- you can Google for the full report.  I
think the
: beauty of Nick's wall warmer/Trombe Wall scheme is that its so simple and
cheap
: -- even if efficiency is low, its cheap heat.
:
: Maybe Nick has some thoughts on this?
:
: ------------
: My own tentative conclusion is that going to a lot of work (e.g. pouring
: concrete etc.) to build a Trombe wall is not worth the effort, because the
: efficiency is so low??  Better to use direct gain with storage in the
floor or
: walls, or a collector with some form of storage (e.g. water containers)
inside
: the heated room??
:
: -----------
: Here is a somewhat similar scheme for non-massive, thin, highly conductive
: walls.  The little test panel I built has the glazing spaced only about
5/16ths
: inch off the wall, and it seems to still function well to heat the
underlying wall.
: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/LowTechCol/LowTechCollectorR1.pdf
: Gary
: www.BuildItSolar.com
: gary@BuildItSolar.com
: "Build It Yourself" Solar Projects

Gary,
Thanks for the reply and commentary. One inch sounds fair with some weep
holes. I had also considered that, so your comments on it reinforce my
thoughts.

To explain further, I have a split level home, lower half is cinder block
(probably uninsulated).  It is also simplistic and would not be a negative
as far as appearance goes (south side is rarely seen, even by me and is
hidden from the public.

Nick's scheme of heating the wall to reduce heat migration from the inside
to the outside is what I am after. A project to bring a wall to R-54 for
free is to good to pass up.

Once this is done I will begin my air collector, but thats another
thread......
Regards,
John



Posted by nicksanspam on August 17, 2006, 11:19 am
 

Yes. Dark insulation and glazing outside a hollow block wall with external
thermosyphoning airflow through holes with one-way dampers might make sense.
A fan and a room thermostat might circulate warm air from inside the wall
through the room as needed.

Nick


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